How is that? he asked.

In the first place, I said, our side will be trained warriors fighting against a number of wealthy individuals.

That is true, he said.

And do you not suppose, Adeimantus, that a single boxer who was perfect in his art would easily be a match for two stout and well-to-do gentlemen who were not boxers?

Hardly, if they came upon him at once.

What, not, I said, if he were able to run away and then turn and strike at the one who first came up? And supposing he were to do this several times under the heat of a scorching sun, do not you think that he might overturn more than one stout personage?

Certainly, he said, there would be nothing wonderful in

that.

And yet rich men are probably not so inferior to others in boxing as they are in military qualities.

That is very likely.

Then probably our athletes will be able to fight with three or four times their own number?

I believe that you are right, he said.

And suppose that, before engaging, our citizens send an embassy to one of the two cities, telling them the truth: Silver and gold we neither have nor are permitted to have; in that we are not like you; do you therefore come and help us in war, and take the spoils of the other city. Who, on hearing these words, would choose to fight the lean wiry dogs, rather than, with the dogs on their side, to fight fat and tender sheep?

Very true; but still there might be a danger to the poor State if the wealth of many States were to coalesce in one.

States! I said; why, what simplicity is this, that you should use the term "State" of any but our own State! Other States may indeed be spoken of more grandiloquently in the plural number, for they are many in one-a game of cities at which men play. Any ordinary city, however small, is in fact two cities, one the city of the poor, the other of the rich, at war with one another; and in either divis423 ion there are many smaller ones, and you would make a great mistake if you treated them as single States; but if you deal with them as many, and give the money or means or

persons of the one to the others, you will always have a great many friends, and not many enemies. And your State, while the wise order which has now been prescribed continues to prevail in her, will be the greatest of States, not in reputation or appearance only, but in deed and truth, though she number not more than a thousand defenders. A State which is her equal you will hardly find, either among Hellenes or barbarians, though many that appear to be as great and many times greater.

3

That is most true, he said.

And this, I said, will be the best limit for our rulers to fix when they are considering the size of the State and the amount of territory which they are to include, and beyond which they will not go.

What limit?

I think, I said, that the State may increase to any size which is consistent with unity; that is the limit.

Yes, he said; that is excellent.

Here then, I said, is another order which will have to be conveyed to our guardians,-that our city is to be neither large nor small, but of such a size as is consistent with unity. And surely, said he, this is not a very severe order which we impose upon them.

And this, said I, is lighter still of which we were speaking before, I mean the duty of degrading the offspring of the guardians when inferior, and of elevating the offspring of the lower classes, when naturally superior, into the rank of guardians. The intention was, that, in the case of the citizens generally, we should put each individual man to that use for which nature designed him, and then every man would do his own business, and be one and not many, and the whole city would be one and not many.

Yes, he said; there will be even less difficulty in that.

These things, my good Adeimantus, are not, as might be supposed, a number of great principles, but trifling all of them, if care be taken, as the saying is, of the one great thing, a thing, however, which I would rather call not great, but enough for our purpose.

What may that be? he asked.
Education, I said, and nurture.

For if they are well edu

A term applied by the Greeks to all who were not Greeks.

cated, and grow into sensible men, they will easily see their way through all this as well as other matters which I do not mention; such, for example, as the possession of women and

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marriage and the procreation of children, which will all follow the general principle that friends have all things in common, as the proverb says.

4

That will be excellent, he replied.

Also, I said, the State, if once started well, goes on with accumulating force like a wheel. For good nurture and education implant good constitutions, and these good constitutions having their roots in a good education improve more and more, and this improvement affects the breed in man as in other animals.

True, he said.

Then to sum up. This is the point to which, above all, the attention of our rulers should be directed,—that music and gymnastics be preserved in their original form, and no innovation made. They must do all they can to maintain this. And when any one says that mankind most regard—

"The song which is the newest that the singers have,"

they will be afraid that he may be praising, not new songs, but a new kind of song; and this ought not to be praised, nor is this to be regarded as the meaning of the poet; for any musical innovation is full of danger to the State, and ought to be prevented. This is what Damon 5 tells me, and I can quite believe him; he says that when modes of music change, the fundamental laws of the State always change with them."

Yes, said Adeimantus; and you may add my suffrage to Damon's and your own.

Then, I said, our guardians must lay the foundations of the fortress in music?

Yes, he said; and license easily creeps in; there can be no doubt of that.

Yes, I replied, in a kind of play, and at first sight appears

harmless.

See Book V., 441-466.

Damon: a distinguished musician of Athens, known also as a Sophist. The Greeks had originally three musical modes which differed in key. They believed that each of these had its own peculiar emotional influSee Grote, I., 644. Compare the saying: Let me make a people's songs and I care not who may make its laws.

ence.

Why, he said, and there is no harm; but the evil is, that little by little this spirit of license, finding a home, penetrates into manners and customs; thence, issuing with greater force, invades agreements between man and man, and from agreements proceeds to laws and constitutions, in utter recklessness, and ends by an overthrow of things in general, private as well as public.

Is all that true? I said.

That is my belief, he replied.

Then, as I was saying, our youth should be educated in a stricter rule from the first, for if education becomes lawless, and the youths themselves become lawless, they can never grow up into well-conducted and virtuous citi

zens.

Very true, he said.

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And the education must begin with their plays. The spirit of law must be imparted to them in music, and the spirit of order, instead of disorder, will attend them in all their actions, and make them grow, and if there be any part of the State which has fallen down, will raise that up again.

Very true, he said.

Thus educated, they will have no difficulty in rediscovering any lesser matters which have been neglected by their prede

cessors.

What do you mean?

I mean such things as these: when the young are to be silent before their elders; how they are to show respect to them by sitting down and rising up; what honor is due to parents; what garments or shoes are to be worn; what mode of wearing the hair is to be the pattern; and the fashions of the body, and manners in general. You would agree with me in that?

Yes.

You think, as I am disposed to think, that there would be small wisdom in legislating about them; for that is never done, nor are any precise verbal enactments about them likely to be lasting.

Impossible.

We may assume, Adeimantus, that the direction in which education starts a man will determine his future life. Does not like always invite like?

No question.

Ending, as you may say, at last in some one rare and grand result, which may be good, and may be the reverse of good. That is not to be denied, he answered.

And for this reason, I said, I shall not attempt further to legislate about them.

Naturally enough, he replied.

Well, I said, and about the business of the agora, or about bargains and contracts with artisans; about insult and injury, or the order in which causes are to be tried, and how judges are to be appointed; there may also be questions about impositions and exactions of market and harbor dues, and in general touching the administration of markets or towns or harbors and the like. But, O heavens! shall we condescend to legislate on any of these particulars?

I think, he said, that there is no need to impose them by law on good men; most of the necessary regulations they will find out soon enough for themselves.

Yes, I said, my friend, if God will only guard the laws that we have given them.

And without divine help, said Adeimantus, they will go on forever making and mending their laws and their lives in the hope of attaining perfection.

You would compare them, I said, to those invalids who, having no self-restraint, will not leave off their habits of intemperance?

Exactly.

Yes, I said; and how charming those people are! they are always doctoring and increasing and complicating their disorders, fancying they will be cured by some nostrum which somebody advises them to try,-never getting better, but rather growing worse.

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That is often the case, he said, with invalids such as you describe.

Yes, I replied; they have a charming way of going on, and the charming thing is that they deem him their worst enemy who tells them the truth, which is simply that, unless they give up eating and drinking and lusting and sleeping, neither drug nor cautery nor spell nor amulet nor anything will be of any avail.

See Apology, note 2.